tv CNN Newsroom with Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto CNN March 13, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PDT
very good morning to you. i'm jim scuitto. >> i'm poppy harley and we've come to a long-a waited end point in the special counsel's investigation. possibly a sequel that outdoes the original. it is the sentencing day today for paul manafort, the man who became chairman of the presidential campaign and the first one indicted in the mueller probe. less than a week after being sentenced for 47 months in prison for a series of convictions in virginia, manafort will stand before a very different judge in washington today where he could get up to 10 years for conspiracy against the united states in witness tampering.
>> the man who briefly oversaw the mueller probe is called back to capitol hill to revisit his testimony he gave just last month under oath, matthew whitaker. in his final days, the acting attorney general gave testimony that they are calling unsatisfactory, incomplete or contradicted by other evidence. more on that in a moment, but we begin with paul manafort's second day of reckoning. shimon prokupecz and pam is at the white house. pam, what are we talking in terms of the sentence she can give here? >> the guidelines say she cannot sentence him for more than ten years, but today is a big day at the d.c. courthouse because shimon have been covering this for up to two years, the investigation into campaign chairman paul manafort, so it really caps the downfall of
manafort. this is his final sentencing. he pleaded guilty of conspiracy charges, conspiracy against the u.s., conspiracy to witness tamper and he will be going up against judge amy berman jackson, a different judge from last week, and he's been under a gag order previously so it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. last week he was in virginia facing a judge there, judge ellis. he showed up in a wheelchair and spoke up there as well. though he did not apologize for his actions. so we'll be keeping a close eye to see what paul manafort has to say today, if anything. and he was sentenced last week to nearly four years in prison. so what we'll be looking for today is what judge jackson does. again, she can't sentence him for more than 10 years, so the question is will whatever she sentences him to be concurrent with what he is already sentenced to serve or will it be consecutive? will he have years piled on top
of that? a lot to look out for here today, and of course, just thinking about about, shimon, tt time we were here, it was the michael cohen testimony that was delayed. there were lots of twists and turns, so we'll be looking to see if there will be drama today. >> shimon, before we get to the verdict, what do we need to know about judge berman? >> she certainly comes prepared. she is very thorough with everything she's done. she is the same judge that's overseen the stone case, so we've seen her take action there as well. she is the judge that put paul manafort in jail when he was
charged with witness tampering. so there is all of that with her. she was, as you said, an obama appointee. she's been on the bench since 2011. one of the interesting things about her is that she's had a very different take on the mueller investigation than what we saw from judge ellis in virginia, who was sort of critical of the mueller investigation. she has not taken that position. she has been through this investigation, she knows a lot of information about this investigation. it was in her court where we got the closest to any possible hint of collusion. it was in her court that it was revealed that paul manafort shared secret campaign data, polling data, with a russian operative. so she knows a lot about this case, certainly a lot more than any of us do. how will all of that play into what she ultimately does today? we shall see. >> i also think one of the other things we'll be looking out for is how much she considers the
fact that manafort violated his plea deal according to prosecutors by lying to the grand jury. that's another thing we'll be keeping an eye on. >> we know you both will be there. we'll stay on top of this throughout the morning. thank you so much. >> let's get right to manu raju on the hill. former acting attorney general matthew whitaker is to give more testimony. what do they know? >> reporter: they say he did not tell the full truth, especially with his actions with donald trump after it was revealed by federal prosecutors in new york of the hush money scandal with michael cohen to keep quiet about those affairs that were about to come out right before the 2016 elections. they don't agree with what he testified to. they later excised what they had
questions about. they suggested he never had issues with the white house public concerns about the special counsel's investigation. because jerry nadler points out somewhat incredulously he doesn't believe they didn't discuss this as whitaker was interviewing for a white house attorney position with the responsibility for overseeing, dealing with the special counsel's investigation. so when i talked to jerry nadler yesterday, he told me very clearly he needs to hear what he says is the full truth from matt whitaker. >> well, he made a number of statements to committee, which we had reason to believe weren't entirely truthful, and we outlined those questions to him in the letter we sent, and we're giving him an opportunity to clarify. because it's very serious that you tell the complete truth to a congressional inquiry. so we're going to give him the opportunity to clarify that. and the subjects are in the
letter we sent him. >> you don't believe he didn't have conversations with the president about the mueller investigation or anybody at the white house? >> we're very skeptical of that. >> reporter: another person who is clarifying his testimony before the house oversight committee is the president's former attorney, michael cohen. when he testified earlier this month before the committee, he said he never asked for a pardon from the president. it turned out there were discussions with the president about a pardon. in the letter last night from michael cohen's attorneys to the house oversight committee chairman, elijah cummings, the attorney says that he should have been clearer about the time frame in which he was discussing this possible pardon, say that he meant there was never a discussion after they left what's known as a joint defense agreement between the attorneys, he said, but at that point there was never a discussion. there were some discussions about a pardon when they were all part of that joint defense agreement. will that satisfy democrats?
we'll see. republicans unlikely to be satisfied. they're already concerned he lied to that committee when he testified earlier this month. >> you have to be so careful under oath always, but especially when you previously admitted to lying to congress. manu, appreciate that. keep us posted. tim? joining me now is democratic congresswoman mary ann crandall. mary, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> as you know, the judge in this case, amy berman jackson, she told manafort in mueller's office that she had decided he intentionally lied, therefore violating -- first of all, breaking the law, but also violating his cooperation agreement. should he be penalized for that? should that add to his sentence today, in your view? >> certainly. i'm an advocate for the rule of law, and i believe when you serve in government office, you should be held to the highest standard, not the lowest common
denominator. >> looking back at his sentence last week, were you disappointed by the sentence he received in a virginia court, which was far below, as you know the sentencing guidelines? >> you rely on our judges to exercise their best judgment, but as someone who has worked with folks who have gotten extremely long sentences under mandatory sentencing guidelines, you know, it's really disappointing to see someone go away to jail for decades or even life for a low-level drug offense and then see someone who has lied to the u.s. government get four years. >> let me ask you about matthew whitaker, the former acting attorney general, as you know, called back to the hill because the chairman of the judicial committee, jerry nadler, believes he was not forthcoming in his prior testimony. i know you won't be in that hearing today, but you have questioned him before matthew whitaker. are you concerned that he lied before your committee? >> well, it would be an understatement to say that his testimony before us last time was not very candid. he really wasn't testifying to
the committee. he seemed to be testifying only to the white house. he was not forthcoming with his answers. he refused to even admit things that are part of the public record. so, yes, there were a number of areas where he did not seem to have been truthful, so we're looking forward to hearing from him maybe now that he's no longer the attorney general, and perhaps he can be more candid with us. >> to be clear here, you believe matthew whitaker lied before your committee? >> he at least was not forthcoming. i think it remains to be seen if he lied, but obviously that would be an offense. >> that's something you're attempting to establish today, i imagine. michael cohen, as you know, also had some highly watched testimony on the hill. in the wake of that, some of his statements on the hill undermined by past statements, his lawyers trying to clean this up. as you know, michael cohen said he never asked for a pardon from the president, but it appears he may have discussed a pardon at least prior to the time period
after he entered cooperation with federal prosecutors. should that lack of truthfulness or lying, if you want to call it that, should that undermine his broader credibility with his allegations regarding the president's behavior? >> well, unfortunately, judiciary is one of the few committees that mr. cohen has not yet testified before. he's been before another of the other committees, and quite frankly, i was not able to watch his testimony because we were busy trying to get work done with respect to gun violence and fair elections, but from what i read in the paper and see on your network, certainly it does look as though there are some questions about his credibility that will have to be resolved. >> is he not a credible witness, in your view? >> i actually don't know about that. he certainly has very little to lose at this point. i understand that he has not been truthful in the past, but at this point he's going to jail one way or another, and in the
criminal justice context, you often find that's when people finally fess up to their past misdeeds. >> another topic, certainly a discussion within your own caucus, that was nancy pelosi regarding impeachment saying for now, and again, with the qualifier if there is no compelling evidence or also bipartisanship support, she does not support an impeachment process for the president now, and she added, of course, the president is not worth it. do you disagree with her on this? do you believe that the democratically controlled house should be at least considering impeachment today? >> i don't believe the democratic house should be considering impeachment today. impeachment is a really serious constitutional process, and it's not something that should be undertaken lightly or for partisan purposes. we saw that with the clinton impeachment. but by the same token, you should not abandon your obligation to conduct oversight and act as a check and balance on the administration for
partisan reasons, and that's what we've seen for the last two years. >> do you believe that this house speaker, though, just to be clear, is abandoning that responsibility by taking that option off the table now? >> i don't think the house speaker is abandoning any possibility. we do not have the grounds or the record to conduct impeachment at this point. she didn't take it off the table for some point in the future if the evidence warrants. we're going to go based on the facts. >> understood. congresswoman, we appreciate you joining us today. thanks very much. >> okay. thank you. well, they were warned. we now know that pilots here in the u.s. recently raised concerns, serious concerns, about the boeing 737 max 8, but the faa is digging in. and these planes are still flying. you might be flying one of them today. >> incredible. actress felicity huffman and actress lori loughlin caught in a college cheating scheme.
these two and dozens of others accused of carrying out a mail fraud. a warrant issued for loughlin. we'll have the latest. inside the d.c. courtroom today, the campaign chairman will face his second sentencing. . how do you get skin happy aveeno® with prebiotic oat. it hydrates and softens skin. so it looks like this... and you feel like this. aveeno® daily moisturizer get skin happy™ means they won't hike your rates over one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident.
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at least five pilots here in the u.s. filed complaints about the boeing 737 max 8 airplane in the last two months, the same plane with crashes in the last five months. among the reasons, the throttle failed to move to the commanded position. the flight manual is inadequate and almost criminally insufficient. these are planes that are currently flying in the u.s. right now, the u.s. behind other countries that have grounded the
aircraft. >> and people are asking why, when you have another pilot that reported on it, hitched nose down a down. the faa says there is no basis to ground the planes. let's go to richard quest, the preeminent airline expert at this network for pay very long time. what are you learning this morning? >> this morning it becomes clear the confusion that does exist. you have these pilots' reports in the databases, the issues of which they refer absolutely at the core of lion air which, of course, is the plane that went down in october and very likely this ethiopian. we're waiting to hear today hopefully where the black boxes are going to be sent. we know they are going to be
sent out of ethiopia. the country doesn't have the technical expertise to read them out, and the view seems to be somewhere in europe. even the president and ceo of ethiopian airways this morning are calling for all planes to be grounded. but jim and poppy, why isn't the faa grounding or banning? it's a different philosophy. they see it differently. their view is that we have these facts on the ground. they do not indicate the plane is unsafe, and until they get new facts, they won't move. the rest of the world is saying the existing facts that we know about are sufficient for an abundance of caution. and that's the phrase we see again and again, abundance of caution, safety comes first, protective safety measures. >> they're alone on that position. we just showed the map there
around the country that has banned this. what caught our attention chls th -- was that a software fix was issued for the control system. that was delayed in part because of the federal government shutdown. what are you learning about that? you know this is a labyrinthian process, you have regulators with the airlines, but the folks weren't working then. that in part delayed this. would that have had an impact? >> no. unlikely. boeing has been working on this since lion air in may -- i'm sorry, in october of last year. it's a fix. it's not a major change. the thing they're talking about is a procedural shift that will tell pilots to do things in a different way. i'm pretty certain even if the faa had been working normally, this would not have had any material effect on the result of
ethiopian. i'm virtually certain about that. the issue now is how the airlines, southwest, american, united with the max 9, are continuing to fly these aircrafts when they know airlines in the rest of the world, reputable carriers, have decided not to. >> and they're getting calls from passengers saying, i'm not going to get on your airline because you're flying this plane. >> i was just thinking about that having to book a flight in a few weeks, and i think it's worth note ing to everyone that faa has not had a permanent head this year. they are looking to nominate a new one, but look, the faa is front and center in all of this. richard, important reporting. thank you. paul manafort will enter the court for his second sentencing. how much more time behind bars could the judge give the former chairman of the trump campaign? and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on,
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this morning paul manafort is back in court in a d.c. federal courthouse where he pleaded guilty last september under a deal with the special counsel that he promptly blew up by lying. >> any minute now the former chairman of the trump presidential campaign could get up to ten years for conspiracy against the u.s. and conspiring to tamper with witnesses, that in addition to the 47 months he got last week on a separate set of convictions in virginia. pamela brown, shimon prokupecz, they're outside the courthouse. the judge is going to speak for some time before issuing her decision here, and i wonder as we begin to hear those comments, s hir shimon and pam, will that give us an idea of where the judge is going with the sentencing? >> reporter: it's always hard to say because last week with judge ellis in virginia, there were many twists and turns where at times you thought, okay, he's really going to lay it down and
give him a long sentence, and then he gave him only four years, around four years, which was much less than the sentencing guidelines, and so you really -- it's hard to read the tea leaves on what the judge says. we should note that paul manafort just arrived. he's once again in a wheelchair but notably different than last time. he's wearing a suit today unlike the scrubs we saw him in last week. we could actually hear from him today in court. is that right, shimon? >> normally in these situations, we do hear from defendants. he spoke for four minutes last time when he asked judge ellis for compassion. that did seem to have an effect on the judge. the judge was compassionate there. when you think about what judge ellis did on the last court date, he explained why he was sentencing him only to the four years so he could live, quote, a blameless life before any of this happened. a lot of people took issue with
those words. it will be interesting to see how judge berman, how she treats this case. what does she say about the impact of this case and what paul manafort has done here in his activity and his behavior? like you said, it is interesting that paul manafort is now in the courtroom, he's in his wheelchair, he's wearing a suit, as you said. prosecutors are now inside the courtroom as well. so we should be getting underway here pretty shortly. >> yeah, it's just about 9:30 eastern time, so we're waiting to hear. what's interesting is last week when he was sentenced in virginia, paul manafort did speak but he did not specifically apologize for his actions. he was sort of reprimanded by judge ellis on that, so i'll be looking today to hear what he says and hear if he does express remorse. >> i don't think he will, because if we look at what he did last week, i don't think he'll express remorse. i think he's going to talk more about how difficult this has been on his life.
i think one of the interesting things is to see how they address the witness tampering charges he pleaded guilty to. >> and lying. >> and lying. judges treat that very seriously. >> this is a culmination, though, of a nearly two-year investigation under special counsel robert mueller, and it is expected to get underway at any moment now, the final sentencing for paul manafort. back to you in the studio. >> guys, stay there because there is a lot to cover in the next few hours here. pam and shimon, we appreciate it. dana bash, our chief political correspondent is here, the new york city prosecutor, jennifer evans, former prosecutor. this is the judge, paul, who revoked his bail for coaching witnesses. this is someone who said you're treating this as a marketing exercise and not a criminal case. and she will be considering that he lied under oath, that he broke his plea deal, that he flouted the gag order, that he
tampered with witnesses and also the financial crimes here. what are you expecting as a sentence? >> there is a lot on her plate, but going into the sentencing, we have the precedent of the very lenient sentence handed down by judge ellis of approximately four years in prison. she's not bound by that. she can sentence him for up to ten years. the thing we're really looking for is will these sentences be consecutive? that is, will he have to serve the four of ellis first and then follow up with her sentence? so if, for instance, she gave him two years to run consecutive, he would wind up having to serve a total of six years in prison. but she can also impose concurrent sentencing, and he could wind up getting no additional jail time. so those are the range of options that she has available to her. >> just explain concurrent sentencing to everyone. that means the time served in the other sentence would count toward this sentence? >> oh, yes. concurrent sentences means you're serving both sentences
together. >> adding one on top of the other. >> consecutive is adding one on top of the other. >> inside the courthouse, judge amy berman jackson, she has taken her seat at the bench. paul manafort's family also in the courtroom. paul manafort in a wheelchair wearing a suit. not, as pamela brown noted earlier, the prison fatigues he was wearing in his previous appearance. jennifer, let me ask you this. you had another sentencing last week, as you know, that many have criticized. can judge ellis legally factor that in to her decision today and say, listen, that judge was soft, i'm going to go hard, or does she have to separate the two? >> so judge jackson can do basically whatever she wants. a judge is allowed to take anything into consideration at sentencing unless it's constitutionally i mpermissible like race, gender, something like that. she can really consider the totality of the circumstances.
i don't think she's going to overtly consider the other judge's sentence because she'll say, i have my own sentence to consider here. paul said while she's capped to a maximum of ten years, the advisory they are allowed to consider, at least, is above ten years. in a standard issue case here, she would give a ten-year sentence because that is still below the guidelines range. i do think she will give a concurrent sentence. that is the standard thing to do. it is unusual to give a consecutive sentence here. >> even for different crimes? >> that's right, that's right. and, you know, judges can do it but they rarely do. and sometimes it's because the statutory maximum in the case that the later judge is considering is high enough so that they can give a guideline sentence. they just feel like it's enough time. we'll see what she does, but my prediction, for what it's worth, is that she'll give ten years concurrent. >> we'll know soon.
dana bash, if amy berman jackson doesn't go to ten years and sort of shocks everyone with an ellis-like sentence, does that give the presidential administration ammunition to make the argument and public opinion that mueller has overreached? >> well, i don't think that what the judge today is going to do is going to matter very much with regard to ammunition because the trump administration, the president himself, his lawyers, they are all in on the notion of overreach. they are all in on the notion of -- and the president said point blank he feels bad for paul manafort. and the manafort attorney not so subtly last week went out to the cameras and said, no collusion. it doesn't take somebody who is an expert in sort of reading between the lines to see what he was trying to do there. paul manafort didn't do the ultimate, you know, crime, or at
least the mission that the mueller investigation is going into, and he was speaking donald trump's language. no collusion. hint, hint, wink, wink, we could use a pardon over here, mr. president. there is no question that is what that was about. >> it's remarkable. jennifer rogers, the issue of overreach, ask you're a former federal prosecutor, you know something about how prosecutors work here, and iv've spoken to lawyers not in the trump administration says he broke the law. you wouldn't see anyone else be prosecuted or sentenced in this way. does that buy criticism? >> i think there's something to the fact that he came on their radar because of the mueller investigation. the issue of the fbi and federal prosecutors is to prosecute crime where you find it. so when they started looking at him and started seeing all these
things, i'm not surprised that they started to prepare charges on him. and when they do that, you charge with everything that you have. there is actually rules at the department of justice that require you to charge someone with the highest count that you have evidence for. >> let's go to shimon prokupecz outside the courthouse. what are you learning, shimon? >> reporter: obviously this just getting underway in the last few minutes. a couple of notes here from the judge. she says what's happening today cannot be a review or revision of what's happening in another court. obviously, given what happened last week with the four-year sentence for paul manafort, she addresses that issue. obviously a lot of people very unhappy about that sentence. she says whatever happened there is completely separate from what she is going to do today. she then said that the sentencing, the max sentence that she could impose today is ten years, and that the
recommendation ended up being more than ten years in the other case. really, she's laying out what the guidelines are for her today and how she's going to address what's in front of her separate from what happened last week. >> and there are two main focuses today, whether paul manafort had a leadership role in the offenses and whether he has accepted responsibility for the crimes he did plead guilty to, but then as we know, he violated the plea deal according to prosecutors. so we'll be looking for how much the judge takes into account the witness tampering, the lying, how much of that will factor in to whatever sentence he is given. and what we're also looking for today is whether she stacks years on top of the nearly four years he's already been given or whether she says they should run concurrent. that is something else we'll be looking for today so this is underway. >> also keep in mind the fact that he pleaded guilty will play a role in this, and i think the lawyers sitting there with you guys are better to explain this, but that is something that
judges take into consideration during a sentencing, the fact that someone has pleaded guilty, has admitted it. this case is obviously different because there's been a lot of complications since he pleaded guilty because he lied to the special counsel's office. >> and a pretty late guilty plea at that, right? guys, great reporting. stand by. everyone stay with us. there is a lot going on this morning. also a warrant this morning is out for the arrest of the actress, lori loughlin. >> it's beyond belief. >> we can't believe it but it allegedly happened. lori loughlin, best known as aunt becky from the tv show "full house." a warrant out for her arrest. the latest on the college cheating scandal, next. with a terrain management system for... this. a bash plate for... that. an electronic locking rear differential for... yeah... this. heading to the supermarket?
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well, this morning a warrant has been issued for the actress lori loughlin while felicity huffman is out on bond and surrendered her passport. this is a scheme where wealthy parents allegedly bribed coaches and administrators to get their children accepted into some of the most elite universities. >> they bought their kids' way into school. it's unconscionable. all the while pretending that the money was for charity. >> getting into the right college will set the trajectory for your son or daughter's life. don't leave it to chance. >> that was all fake. william "rick" singer is at the center of this investigation and has already pled guilty to several charges. brynn gingras is here.
he had folks willing to pay a lot of money to cheat their kids' way into schools. >> reporter: yeah, he actually talked about how successful he was in court. he pled guilty to four federal charges in court yesterday. he told the judge there is a front door to get into colleges, there is a back door. he created the side door. and he says he was pretty good at it. there were a lot of college coaches, he said, that would take these bribes in order to admit these students into their colleges as athletes when they never even participated in sports. he is facing up to 65 years in prison, and i will say he was a cooperating witness for the government. he talked in court about wearing a wire through this year investigation. it will be interesting to see how that plays into his event wal senteneventual sentencing. >> 65 years in prison is a possibility. wow. we're seeing the photos of the two big name actresses, lori
loughlin and felicity huffman. there were about 50 people involved. where does this go next? >> a lot of this goes to the courthouse here in boston. people that have already pled guilty, people like felicity huffman who is out on $250,000 bond. lori loughlin's husband has appeared before a judge. he's out on a million dollars bond. we expect lori loughlin to eventually turn herself in. college coaches will come here to the courthouse for their next court date. furthermore, i can say this. universities have not been charged in this case but a lot of them are taking their own actions, some already firing coaches who were accused in this indictment, some saying their coaches will be on leave, others, you know, opening their own internal investigations, like usc. >> wow. brynn, thank you for being there. i remember you broke this story at the end of our show yesterday. it's stunning. a vote with major implications set to be taken on
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paul manafort, the president's former campaign chairman is in a courthouse in washington, d.c. right now hearing from a judge who's going to sentence him today. our pamela brown outside the courtroom. we are getting new details from inside the courtroom. tell us what you're hearing. >> reporter: that's right, just moments ago the judge, judge jackson brought up the fact that manafort violated his plea agreement and raised the
question of whether he really accepted responsibility for the crimes. she said whether he lied during his cooperation sessions and breached the plea agreement has some relevance. so she is basically saying there that, yes, this could be taken into account in terms of what she decides to sentence him to. we learned just moments ago that the probation office says that manafort does not deserve credit for accepting responsibility. his lawyer has argued that, yes, he did accept responsibility. >> now manafort's attorneys are getting their opportunity to argue why he does deserve credit for taking responsibility. the other thing i want to point out that the judge has said is that manafort's sentencing guidelines should get bumped higher to a level in line with what was recommended because of the fact that this involved other people in this conspiracy. we have heard from our folks
inside court that konstantin kilimnik, the russian agent that the fbi says was working for russian intelligence, his name has come up several times in this court hearing. obviously a big point here for the judge. >> stay with us. here's an idea, don't lie to prosecutors. the senate appears to be ready to deal a pair of political blows to president trump this week. today lawmakers vote on a resolution that would end u.s. aid in the saudi-led war in yemen. >> also, tomorrow the senate is set to rebuke the president's national emergency declaration. two big blows for the president here. lauren fox is live on capitol hill. what this would do if it passes the house and senate, is it would end u.s. aid to the saudi-led coalition. >> reporter: the white house was threatening to veto this back in
december when the senate voted on a very similar resolution. what they plan to vote on today, the politics have really changed since december because you have democrats leading the house of representatives. and we expect this resolution would sail through the senate and then the house of representatives. so the president would actually be forced to sign a veto threat on something like this proposal. now, this comes just as the senate is prepared to vote tomorrow again to rebuke the president when it comes to that national emergency declaration on the southern border. we already know there are four republicans prepared to vote with democrats on that resolution of disapproval. but a huge two days on capitol hill as republicans really have to come face to face with whether they want to protect their powers in congress or rebuke the president on two issues they care deeply about. >> that proposal now circulating that would grant an okay for
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and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. cardinal george pell, the most senior vatican official to be convicted of sex abuse to date will become a registered sex offender. >> a judge in australia sentenced him to six years in prison for sexual abuse of two choir boys when he was the arch bishop of melbourne in the late '90s. this is really remarkable for a priest to be going to prison for this. unprecedented at this point?
>> certainly is, jim, you know, unprecedented to see a cardinal behind bars, especially one who was a close advisor to pope francis. cardinal pell faced up to 50 years in prison five counts of child sexual abuse. in the end the judge gave him six years and issued a lengthy commentary explaining how he arrived at that sentencing. but it didn't satisfy everybody, certainly voices in australia saying they were not satisfied by the six-year sentence including the father of one of the victims, who said it just wasn't sufficient. cardinal pell has filed for appeal, so there will be more coming from australia. that hearing is due in june. the vatican had no comment on the sentencing but they did say two weeks ago when the guilty verdict was handed down that they will be initiating their own process into the cardinal
that could eventually result in removing him from the priesthood. ♪ top of the hour here. it is a busy one. >> breaking news right now in washington, the first person to be indicted by the special counsel is in his second and final sentencing hearing. paul manafort, the former chairman of the trump campaign, could get as much as ten years in prison for conspireing against the united states and conspireing to tamper with witnesses. >> we're getting a lot of new information out of the courtroom as proceedings are underway right now. we've been hearing some interesting statements and meaningful statements from the judge in the last few minutes. tell